Thanks for sharing .These well intentioned, open discussions are important . I would like to add my thoughts on two things here: 1. To the woman in the image: Please bear with me as I consider a lengthy two sided examination . The following has been true for many centuries: "ALMOST ALL MEN could say " I don't have criminal charges against me, not even a slap- for eve teasing, workplace harassment to rape or murder. Anyone who tried got acid attacks,death threats to entire family, revenge rapes, tainted character, no marriage alliances, no jobs, police (and everyone) blaming the victim, shame and judgement then and there and forever. And I was never afraid to walk out with my head held high, be it in a job or relationship or open road when everyone is watching." They go back and say, " REAL men don't have rejections, or consequences, we only have " How I ruined her" short victory folklores to pass on". So, I don't agree with what this woman says about strong women or not having metoo stories. In fact, strong women, survive to speak out loud and clear about what happened to them. Can we imagine how much strength that takes? To recover from any kind of trauma? What this woman is trying to say is, "I have been lucky. Lucky women don't have metoo stories". Her experience is an exception compared to many that couldn't simply slap back.I am sure Nirbhaya slapped/ kicked back but she couldn't walk out alive. tell stories of how strong she has been. Now, this lady has been a' strong woman' for some reasons I am 'guessing'- She looks old, and has a DR. tag and talks of having relationships. She must have had an extremely progressive family for her times, community and their support , that she was 'allowed' to have a good education, and possibly even relationships. She must have mostly been in relatively less hostile neighbourhoods, workplaces and relationships. Most importantly, she must have had a family that stuck up to her. And men knew this is not someone they can mess with, because, they will have consequences, not the woman- she has support. The men will be blamed, not her. Or the men around her were raised in a culture where it was not okay to harass. or are educated about such matters.She was not a strong woman, she was a woman with strong moral support. She was not alone I am sure. Most importantly, her family must have stuck up to her. Some DAD / mom did a damn good job at raising a confident, educated daughter. And someone did a damn good job at raising that DAD . METOO gives a lot of people that community. All around the world, not just India, even in progressive countries, there are women and their families who don't have that support or assertion that they are not wrong.That it's okay to stand up for themselves. Now this may seem a very easy , simple thing to do- standing up and speaking out. and slapping. I will just say, it is not and if someone doesn't understand why, or the process (which takes decades) of being able to stand up and speak out for yourself when you are made to believe that you are wrong by every other voice around you(which seems like the entire world). If one has not experienced the courage and faith it takes to even imagine you can be right, to defer in your perspective against the crowd- to find your burried voice-when everyone says you are wrong to do so - it is not possible to explain in words why it is not easy. They are just fortunate to have such an accepting environment. Girl children are told from day 1 by their elders to never slap or scold a guy that eve teases , because he will come back and throw acid/rape.To not have boyfriends because, the marriage alliances will 'inquire'. It is hard to overcome that brainwashing. Even when little girls stand up against boys misbehaving, the boy's parents come to thrash them for doing so as in this news here-"Indian schoolgirls beaten for resisting boys' sexual harassment" - "Thirty-six Indian schoolgirls have been treated in hospital after they were attacked by a large crowd of teenage boys and their parents when they complained of sexual harassment.". I will just say, it's been an unsafe and scary jungle out there for majority of us. This woman, has lived in a bubble.She can speak for herself, not all women out there, survivors and people who tell metoo stories. A privileged bubble which brings into light- caste, distribution of literacy in India and other privileges, which is out of scope here. Simply put, She is able to say that because of a long entrenched inequality in our socio-economic-geographic systems which favoured her .But I will give her the benefit of doubt that- She was trying to say, " We must all be able to slap an idiot back, let's do that".This is true, we should all be able to do that and movements like METOO are making that happen for larger population. For some, on top of a hill surrounding them , they can simply slap back. For some it takes the uproar of a movement beneath them to raise them up and to level the ground in preparation for the slap. Also, she says it on twitter so , not possible for her to have an in depth case for what she says. . These discussions need more than few characters on twitter. If she had them, maybe she would say something more comprehensive and useful. In general, there is a danger to propagating such reductionist account of a serious issue taken out of context, on social media - with bad communication skills. Maybe she really means to say " We must all be able to slap an idiot back, let's do that".
And I continue my second point- It is only a reflection on the articles/ reactions circulating in relation to men saying they are victims of metoo for false defamations. Nothing personal to this post of the comments. Please bear with the lengthy note.
In the metoo movement , few men are wrongly accused, true. The word some innocent men are looking for , to express the injustice happening to them is 'Slut shaming' . We as women have been living with it , again, for centuries. And developed some crude coping mechanisms if the men need to borrow. They are just beginners so I can understand their agony. They don't have wise grandads with age old wisdom advising EVERY young boy going to college-" be careful, the girls may brand you a dog. watch every word, step, interaction. .Don't lift your head on road. Don't make eye contact. Dogs do that. Look at the floor when walking. Wear a lungi so the outline of your legs won't be seen. Be careful with female professors. Don't walk alone, take your friend to toilet. Don't raise your head or voice. walk slowly, don't spread your legs when you sit. You are not doing anything wrong? yea, but don't even do anything at all. They will do inquiry and you won't get marriage alliances. Just float like a ghost. Everything can be used against you. What networking event to get ahead in your profession? Are you sleeping with the boss lady? You got a hike? Promotion? Are you flirting with the boss lady? Going by bus? Cover your groin with a hard textbook. Stand stiff and still. The man next to you yelled at a misbehaving girl? The girl will find his home and throw acid. she will stalk him, wait for him to walk by the shop near his house. How embarrassing for him, for you. People are looking.Looking away. Watch frantically around you all the time as though it's war. You are not a man, you are a better trained spy than the Russians. This is metoooo (like sparta you see?) . Now you are ready. So, Did you study well? get first? get great job? high pay? get promotion? Improved knowledge by networking? asked professors doubts fearlessly? spoke up in office meetings? make us proud? worked late hours ? break glass ceiling? settled well? " BY 18- 24 years of age. . BECAUSE. BECAUSE THAT'S YOUR EXPIRY DATE- NO WOMAN WILL MARRY YOU AFTER THAT. # The two faced thug grandad. :)
A very fundamental difference here. Almost every woman lives in fear- she will be raped or killed or molested or groped or eve teased or spoken to vulgarly at work through the office chats and in the pantries on a daily basis , home , work, streets. So saying metoo is needed and is concrete. For both men and women who are survivors. Men complaining now as living in fear- It's not the same magnitude or context. They are scared , they will be defamed. not killed or raped, or groped or called out vulgarly out of nowhere for no reason, irrespective of time, place, person, age.
In such a hostile climate for women , many women were wrongly defamed too and the consequences are much harsher than for innocent men today.. Slut shaming has been used as a tool of blackmail, control , censoring freedom and causing fear for ages.Even when one is a victim, the man can still say, if you said this out, you will be slut shamed not me. Studying, working, dressing, walking, moving, talking, breathing, existing even. It has been the reality for so so long. And by extension, family of daughters live in the fear of the daughter, sister, wife , even mother being slut shamed all their life. Not exaggerating. I am sure a lot of people, men and women can relate. Men finally experience what it is like . It is wrong for sure, for both men and women.It's NOT JUST INNOCENT MEN BEING DEFAMED. WOMEN TOO, FOR CENTURIES. FOR MEN IT IS SO NEW AND SHOCKING AND ANXIETY DRIVING. WELCOME TO WOMANHOOD?. the struggle is understandable, real and we empathize with those men. Taking advantage of the consequences such defamation stories have on one's life is never right.
However, The 'individual responsibility' to not abuse one's rights and freedom of speech is a whole different topic and a cause in itself- as opposed to a cultural reform that metoo movement is. metoo can't be blamed for this. To have civic educated citizens who understand how to use their rights sensibly and to advocate for what they believe, through a civil discourse , how to be better people, learn interpersonal communication, , how to handle anger, deal with conflict , agree to disagree etc - these, our schools gloriously replace to have more math classes. This falls under the broader spectrum of educating citizens on the need for responsible use of their civic rights and privileges. Not metoo. So as the climate changes , and there is a new rule. it only seems inevitable that there is an abuse of the newly earned freedom, right as with any other freedom, right, law, policy. (Even abuse of corporate policies like Amazon's easy refunds and returns! ) .
But the real question is, when men took /take advantage of their privilege for so long.Why was the community not calling out the men for wrongly defaming. earlier or even now? Why were we not calling out men for creating an environment where the girl has to be 'careful' , "sir jhukkey" ( almost like a norm, not once in a while- it has become a women's culture to live in fear) ?. But are now calling out women so harshly? for wrongly defaming? It is because even today, with metoo- men's voices are clear, have authority and are taken seriously. Even if only ''a few men' say they are anxious, no one is saying they should suck the f up. and WOMAN UP. An example of this- WOMEN have reproduction control medicines in the market and more research on that, even if the side affects are life altering, and beyond any clinical safety standards. They are simply not safe. Ever wondered why there is no pill for man? They tried to make one and then abandoned saying- health hazard. When the health hazard was much less than the health hazard women face with existing pills..They simply didn't let men go through that. Even such dire situations, men's voices, even a few are loud and clearly heard, accepted, taken seriously and people hustle to make things right.We all subconsciously do it. Think about how we treat our mom vs dad- how we take dads more seriously and feel comfortable arguing with mom than with dad (not all cases). And most often than not, moms turn out right, reasonable, strategic. Even if the women's population is dying, numbers falling down due to female foeticide, it is no concern except- when- there are no women left for men to marry. Again, when men were defaming, women were asked to be careful.To behave. When women are defaming, it is still women that are told to be wrong , to be careful, and men are suddenly scared. but yet no one is telling men continue to live in fear like they told women. To be fair, an equivalent treatment would be what I described as the wise grandad above, I don't see that happening now or in future- Even so, calling a woman a bitch ruined her life and her children's life devastatingly for centuries than calling a man dog now does, even with all of #metoo. put together.
And in such a situation, when women never spoke, many many men got away for hideous things, and very very few women that spoke ever were believed. So it's inevitable, that when many many women speak, very very few men get wrongly accused as well. Such is the balance. For example, even when a country makes a law, or elects a party- it's not 100% of people that are benefitted or happy but a majority of severely distressed/ affected are. It would be nice to have a 100% relief for all distressed and no need to prioritize one's hurt over other , but it can only happen in iterations of us all taking turns to experience loss:) Thanks for the good discussion girls!
In the metoo movement , few men are wrongly accused, true. The word some innocent men are looking for , to express the injustice happening to them is 'Slut shaming' . We as women have been living with it , again, for centuries. And developed some crude coping mechanisms if the men need to borrow. They are just beginners so I can understand their agony. They don't have wise grandads with age old wisdom advising EVERY young boy going to college-" be careful, the girls may brand you a dog. watch every word, step, interaction. .Don't lift your head on road. Don't make eye contact. Dogs do that. Look at the floor when walking. Wear a lungi so the outline of your legs won't be seen. Be careful with female professors. Don't walk alone, take your friend to toilet. Don't raise your head or voice. walk slowly, don't spread your legs when you sit. You are not doing anything wrong? yea, but don't even do anything at all. They will do inquiry and you won't get marriage alliances. Just float like a ghost. Everything can be used against you. What networking event to get ahead in your profession? Are you sleeping with the boss lady? You got a hike? Promotion? Are you flirting with the boss lady? Going by bus? Cover your groin with a hard textbook. Stand stiff and still. The man next to you yelled at a misbehaving girl? The girl will find his home and throw acid. she will stalk him, wait for him to walk by the shop near his house. How embarrassing for him, for you. People are looking.Looking away. Watch frantically around you all the time as though it's war. You are not a man, you are a better trained spy than the Russians. This is metoooo (like sparta you see?) . Now you are ready. So, Did you study well? get first? get great job? high pay? get promotion? Improved knowledge by networking? asked professors doubts fearlessly? spoke up in office meetings? make us proud? worked late hours ? break glass ceiling? settled well? " BY 18- 24 years of age. . BECAUSE. BECAUSE THAT'S YOUR EXPIRY DATE- NO WOMAN WILL MARRY YOU AFTER THAT. # The two faced thug grandad. :)
A very fundamental difference here. Almost every woman lives in fear- she will be raped or killed or molested or groped or eve teased or spoken to vulgarly at work through the office chats and in the pantries on a daily basis , home , work, streets. So saying metoo is needed and is concrete. For both men and women who are survivors. Men complaining now as living in fear- It's not the same magnitude or context. They are scared , they will be defamed. not killed or raped, or groped or called out vulgarly out of nowhere for no reason, irrespective of time, place, person, age.
In such a hostile climate for women , many women were wrongly defamed too and the consequences are much harsher than for innocent men today.. Slut shaming has been used as a tool of blackmail, control , censoring freedom and causing fear for ages.Even when one is a victim, the man can still say, if you said this out, you will be slut shamed not me. Studying, working, dressing, walking, moving, talking, breathing, existing even. It has been the reality for so so long. And by extension, family of daughters live in the fear of the daughter, sister, wife , even mother being slut shamed all their life. Not exaggerating. I am sure a lot of people, men and women can relate. Men finally experience what it is like . It is wrong for sure, for both men and women.It's NOT JUST INNOCENT MEN BEING DEFAMED. WOMEN TOO, FOR CENTURIES. FOR MEN IT IS SO NEW AND SHOCKING AND ANXIETY DRIVING. WELCOME TO WOMANHOOD?. the struggle is understandable, real and we empathize with those men. Taking advantage of the consequences such defamation stories have on one's life is never right.
However, The 'individual responsibility' to not abuse one's rights and freedom of speech is a whole different topic and a cause in itself- as opposed to a cultural reform that metoo movement is. metoo can't be blamed for this. To have civic educated citizens who understand how to use their rights sensibly and to advocate for what they believe, through a civil discourse , how to be better people, learn interpersonal communication, , how to handle anger, deal with conflict , agree to disagree etc - these, our schools gloriously replace to have more math classes. This falls under the broader spectrum of educating citizens on the need for responsible use of their civic rights and privileges. Not metoo. So as the climate changes , and there is a new rule. it only seems inevitable that there is an abuse of the newly earned freedom, right as with any other freedom, right, law, policy. (Even abuse of corporate policies like Amazon's easy refunds and returns! ) .
But the real question is, when men took /take advantage of their privilege for so long.Why was the community not calling out the men for wrongly defaming. earlier or even now? Why were we not calling out men for creating an environment where the girl has to be 'careful' , "sir jhukkey" ( almost like a norm, not once in a while- it has become a women's culture to live in fear) ?. But are now calling out women so harshly? for wrongly defaming? It is because even today, with metoo- men's voices are clear, have authority and are taken seriously. Even if only ''a few men' say they are anxious, no one is saying they should suck the f up. and WOMAN UP. An example of this- WOMEN have reproduction control medicines in the market and more research on that, even if the side affects are life altering, and beyond any clinical safety standards. They are simply not safe. Ever wondered why there is no pill for man? They tried to make one and then abandoned saying- health hazard. When the health hazard was much less than the health hazard women face with existing pills..They simply didn't let men go through that. Even such dire situations, men's voices, even a few are loud and clearly heard, accepted, taken seriously and people hustle to make things right.We all subconsciously do it. Think about how we treat our mom vs dad- how we take dads more seriously and feel comfortable arguing with mom than with dad (not all cases). And most often than not, moms turn out right, reasonable, strategic. Even if the women's population is dying, numbers falling down due to female foeticide, it is no concern except- when- there are no women left for men to marry. Again, when men were defaming, women were asked to be careful.To behave. When women are defaming, it is still women that are told to be wrong , to be careful, and men are suddenly scared. but yet no one is telling men continue to live in fear like they told women. To be fair, an equivalent treatment would be what I described as the wise grandad above, I don't see that happening now or in future- Even so, calling a woman a bitch ruined her life and her children's life devastatingly for centuries than calling a man dog now does, even with all of #metoo. put together.
And in such a situation, when women never spoke, many many men got away for hideous things, and very very few women that spoke ever were believed. So it's inevitable, that when many many women speak, very very few men get wrongly accused as well. Such is the balance. For example, even when a country makes a law, or elects a party- it's not 100% of people that are benefitted or happy but a majority of severely distressed/ affected are. It would be nice to have a 100% relief for all distressed and no need to prioritize one's hurt over other , but it can only happen in iterations of us all taking turns to experience loss:) Thanks for the good discussion girls!
Other comments:
Well, I disagree. The fact that somebody had to be slapped is exactly why there is a me too movement. Just because we didn’t go through some of these horrific experiences doesn’t mean we lack the empathy to acknowledge somebody else’s story. Most of these stories made me sick in the stomach. Every one should feel safe at their workplace and it’s a reasonable ask. It’s high time the creative spaces in India are regulated for harassment at work and predators are outed from positions of power.
I’ll publish an article soon where you’ll know how #metoo is being misutilized to the core. You’ll see ample amount of examples. No celebrity examples. It’s real examples of normal people like you and me
please do. Would love to read it 🙂
I’m sure there’s a 1% that will be misusing any thing you try to put into place -but I don’t want the genuine voices to not be heard, which is the majority.
The normal people that you’re talking about I assume are cases mostly about consent and how the survivor felt violated. I’d love to read more about it.
On another note, how awesome it would’ve been for everybody to be educated about consent back in school
1% we think so. 👻👻 such campaigns where 50-50 or 70-30 imbalance cannot be supported. There should be something more concrete. Saying #metoo isn’t it.
Also, my main issue with the image shared is that the person tweeting is downplaying somebody else’s story and talking about how fierce she is. This is not a contest.
I don’t have any story because I’m stronger or whatever is total bs.
I can’t talk about your percentages because I don’t know what the source is 🙂
But I’m happy that predators who have taken advantage of their power are being outed.
saying #metoo is a symbolism of support and a platform to be heard for a fellow affected person- could be a him or her. For every movement change there will always be a percentage of persons who would take advantage and misuse it for their benefit. But downplaying someone’s trauma and defining what a strong woman should be is insensitive to every woman who has been affected. The fact that such issues are being discussed in the open itself is a small victory in itself.(this wasn’t the case few years back)
Love the discussion, ladies! You bring up good points Padala. I'm glad you brought up privilege. When I was reading a couple of these stories from the media/advertising industries, I thought this could've been me or any other 21 year old who just got out of college. We were all privileged to be working for a Tech MNC that had a sexual harassment session on day 1/week 1( don't ask me why I remember that vividly- that's a story for another day). Regardless of it, say I was harassed at work, I had the financial cushion and an understanding family who would support me walking out of a job but what should be acknowledged is that's not the case with a lot of people and is a privilege in itself. Imagine working in an industry that doesn't have any guidelines like a movie set or an ad firm. Should I/anyone not pursue their ambitions because of harassment or because the industry it's dominated by a particular gender? You know the answer to that question .
True. I recently became aware of how we are in regulated environment as IT folks with good HR practises in place (which still doesn't help). My sister is in the manufacturing sector and talks of how IT has policies in place but not her field and it definitely shows a huge difference in workplace safety for women. media is historically known to be the worst for women, You rightly bring up not being able to go on diverse intellectual pursuits as a women, because it's not safe. Not everyone can fit into only professions considered safe for women. Which brings me to a story I heard of Genpact- they were the first people to introduce the cabs in India , with body guards, so they can get women out and contribute to workforce that they much needed but had a deficit of. It did give us some cushion at amazon , yea? It definitely helped women move freely irrespective of time and place.
Take the #kavanaugh case for example- #christineblaseyfordreluctantly came out as a witness, knowing her life would be turned upside down but felt it was her civic duty despite the death threats. Ford’s powerful testimony has had its affect all over and has played a major role in further fueling the #metoo movement in the political scene. Being heard is essential but sincere actions need to be made to instill faith in the system and humanity instead of a last minute namesake investigation. This was nothing but a mockery when all along it was decided that the allegedly accused will be appointed to the Supreme Court.
Though a blow, this has sparked outrage amongst people and I believe the more we fight towards being heard and keep up the momentum the more likely we are closer to not just a change in the system but also the attitude of people. Awareness and discussions are a stepping stone to understanding and changing the mindsets of both men and women.
If this could save the life of a single individual, this fight is worth it.
This is true and powerful- "If this could save the life of a single individual, this fight is worth it."
" “If I look at the mass, I will never act. If I look at the one, I will.”
-Teresa
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